“Darwinists are fundamentalists too!”
In the evolution/creation* “debate”, there are always some people who seem to think there is merit in proposing a middle ground, most often in the form of “special creation”, which posits that animals evolved, but humans were created by God.
People who suggest these sort of middle ground theories tend to be pretty smug about it, as if the other two positions are both “extremists”, and they’re exceptionally wise for seeing a more moderate point of view.
What these people, and the people they fool, seem to be forgetting is that it’s possible for one side to just be wrong.
When one person claims 2 + 2 = 4, and another claims 2 + 2 = 6, the person who suggests that 2 + 2 = 5 does not get tolerance points for finding a middle ground. He’s an idiot for lending a random shot in the dark as much credence as rational thinking.
The false dichotomy is a logical fallacy only when the dichotomy is truly false. This is a middle ground fallacy.
I’ll repeat again: the theory of evolution is not in doubt. It is widely supported by tons of data from a variety of sources, including DNA evidence, anatomical evidence, fossil evidence, &c.
In scientific usage, “theory” does not imply uncertainty. Simply put, a theory is a collection of facts put together in an explanatory model. Compare, for example, germ theory, the theories of relativity, or the theory of plate tectonics.
Evolution is quite possibly the most well-supported theory in science. Without it, we wouldn’t have modern medicine.
Creationism, on the other hand, has nothing to support it. The argument from design is a god-of-the-gaps type fallacy which evolution itself did away with quite easily, and irreducible complexity has been shown to be bunk often enough now, so all creationism really has left is the argument from authority (“The Bible says it’s true!”), which, honestly, isn’t even worth addressing.
Creationism is worthless bullshit.
People need to think before they speak.
* Yes, just creation. Intelligent Design does not qualify as a third option. It is very transparently repackaged creationism, plain and simple.
keith said,
December 18th, 2007 at 8:27 am
obviously you haven’t read the bible and if you have which is unlikely then you wouldn’t see anyway, the bbible says, Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Romans Chapter 1 verse 22.
Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this world, let him become a fool so that he may be wise. 1 CorinthiansChapter 3 verse 18.
have a study of the url ive posted you might actually learn something
take care
Cairnarvon said,
December 18th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Hahaha oh wow.
rednwhite said,
December 18th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
He’s got you pegged, you know.
Cairnarvon said,
December 18th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Evidently. In over two decades of various Catholic schools I’ve completely managed to miss all of the Bible’s content~
Homeschooling is one of the US’s most fundamental problems. Any child who’s had a real biology teacher for even a year could poke holes in any given argument AiG puts forth.
keith said,
December 19th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
If you have been to catholic schools then yes you have definitely missed the point and definitely had the bible taught to you the wrong way, catholics make their own doctrine up. Ok on a more serious note Look at it this way I’m a born again Christian Read John chapter 3 verse 3 if you don’t know what that is, If I am wrong and die and dont go to heaven I lose nothing, If you are wrong and heaven exists you lose EVERYTHING…
Take care
keith
Cairnarvon said,
December 19th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
Wasting your only life living a lie isn’t a loss?
Anyway, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager#Criticisms
Why is it that the religious, who presumably spend more time thinking about their religion than atheists do, usually seem to know the least about their own arguments?
(Also, the fact that you don’t see the irony in an adherent of one brand of Christianity accusing adherents of another brand of making stuff up is pretty hilarious.)
keith said,
December 19th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
The true fact is that you know that if you acknowledge that there is a God then you have to change your life and follow Him, so you choose to deny God and live your own life the way you choose, which is your right, we were given free will we aren’t forced to follow God it’s a choice, however at the end of your life you will bow down before God as will everyone, For it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” Romans Chapter 14 verse 11
The Bible states: ‘The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom’ (Psalm 111:10); ‘The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge’ (Proverbs 1:7). ‘But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned’ (1 Corinthians 2:14).
A Christian cannot divorce the spiritual nature of the battle from the battle itself. A non-Christian is not neutral. The Bible makes this very clear: ‘The one who is not with Me is against Me, and the one who does not gather with Me scatters’ (Matthew 12:30); ‘And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil’ (John 3:19).
So my friend I will be praying for you
take care
keith
Cairnarvon said,
December 20th, 2007 at 2:34 am
The true fact is that you know that if you acknowledge that there is a Cthulhu then you have to change your life and follow Him, so you choose to deny Cthulhu and live your own life the way you choose, which is your right, we were given free will we aren’t forced to follow Cthulhu it’s a choice, however at the end of your life you will bow down before Cthulhu as will everyone, For it is written, “Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn.”
I don’t believe in your god because there’s no evidence whatsoever for his existence (presumably you don’t believe in the tooth fairy for roughly the same reason), not because I don’t like the consequences of belief, as you would know if you bothered to lurk moar and actually read some posts here.
By all means pray if it makes you feel better, though seeking psychiatric help would be more productive.
keith said,
December 20th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Does God exist? I find it interesting that so much attention is given to this debate. The latest surveys tell us that over 90% of people in the world today believe in the existence of God or some higher power. Yet, somehow the responsibility is placed on those who believe God does exist to somehow prove that He really does exist. To me, I think it should be the other way around.
However, the existence of God cannot be proven or disproved. The Bible even says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists, “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). If God so desired, He could simply appear and prove to the whole world that He exists. But if He did that, there would be no need for faith. “Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed’” (John 20:29).
That does not mean, however, that there is not evidence of God’s existence. The Bible declares, “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world” (Psalm 19:1-4). Looking at the stars, understanding the vastness of the universe, observing the wonders of nature, seeing the beauty of a sunset – all of these things point to a Creator God. If these were not enough, there is also evidence of God in our own hearts. Ecclesiastes 3:11 tells us, “…He has also set eternity in the hearts of men…” There is something deep down in our beings that recognizes that there is something beyond this life and someone beyond this world. We can deny this knowledge intellectually, but God’s presence in us and through us is still there. Despite all of this, the Bible warns us that some will still deny God’s existence, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’” (Psalm 14:1). Since over 98% of people throughout history, in all cultures, in all civilizations, on all continents believe in the existence of some kind of God – there must be something (or someone) causing this belief.
In addition to the Biblical arguments for God’s existence, there are logical arguments. First, there is the ontological argument. The most popular form of the ontological argument basically uses the concept of God to prove God’s existence. It begins with the definition of God as “that than which no greater can be conceived.” It is then argued that to exist is greater than to not exist, and therefore the greatest conceivable being must exist. If God did not exist then God would not be the greatest conceivable being – but that would contradict God’s very definition. A second is the teleological argument. The teleological argument is that since the universe displays such an amazing design, there must have been a Divine designer. For example, if earth were even a few hundred miles closer or further away from the sun, it would not be capable of supporting much of the life it currently does. If the elements in our atmosphere were even a few percentage points different, every living thing on earth would die. The odds of a single protein molecule forming by chance is 1 in 10243 (that is a 10 followed by 243 0’s). A single cell is comprised of millions of protein molecules.
A third logical argument for God’s existence is called the cosmological argument. Every effect must have a cause. This universe and everything in it is an effect. There must be something that caused everything to come into existence. Ultimately, there must be something “un-caused” in order to cause everything else to come into existence. That “un-caused” something is God. A fourth argument is known as the moral argument. Every culture throughout history has had some form of law. Everyone has a sense of right and wrong. Murder, lying, stealing, and immorality are almost universally rejected. Where did this sense of right and wrong come from if not from a holy God?
Despite all of this, the Bible tells us that people will reject the clear and undeniable knowledge of God and instead believe a lie. Romans 1:25 declares, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator – who is forever praised. Amen.” The Bible also proclaims that people are without excuse for not believing in God, “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – His eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).
People claim to not believe in God because it is “not scientific” or “because there is no proof.” The true reason is that once people admit that there is a God, they also must realize that they are responsible to God and in need of forgiveness from God (Romans 3:23; 6:23). If God exists, then we are accountable for our actions to Him. If God does not exist, then we can do whatever we want without having to worry about God judging us. I believe that is why evolution is so strongly clung to by many in our society – to give people an alternative to believing in a Creator God. God exists and ultimately everyone knows that He exists. The very fact that some attempt so aggressively to disprove His existence is in fact an argument for His existence.
Allow me one last argument for God’s existence. How do I know God exists? I know God exists because I speak to Him every day. I do not audibly hear Him speaking back to me, but I sense His presence, I feel His leading, I know His love, I desire His grace. Things have occurred in my life that have no other possible explanation other than God. God has so miraculously saved me and changed my life that I cannot help but to acknowledge and praise His existence. None of these arguments in and of themselves can persuade anyone who refuses to acknowledge what is so plainly clear. In the end, God’s existence must be accepted by faith (Hebrews 11:6). Faith in God is not a blind leap into the dark, it is safe step into a well-lit room where 90% of people are already standing.
My last comment
take care
keith
Cairnarvon said,
December 20th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Even your copy/pastes are ignorant.
Doesn’t understand how the burden of proof works.
Retarded cop-out that essentially says the writer knows his beliefs are bullshit.
Argumentum ad populum, number pulled out of his ass. Pretending the various religions of the world are all essentially the same thing, which is obvious bullshit.
Not to mention that the causes of religious beliefs in general are quite well-known and uncontroversially natural. Read Dennett’s Breaking the Spell.
Biblical “arguments” aren’t arguments, they’re circular reasoning.
The ontological “argument” is basically a four-year-old’s proof of god. It’s obvious bullshit, and anyone who buys into it need to have himself examined. I’ve torn it to shreds before, look for it. Not going to repeat it.
The teleological “argument” demonstrates your complete ignorance of science and the basic facts of nature, and if nothing else, shows you aren’t interested in the truth, only in what you want to believe.
That’s cute. Seriously, grow up.
Evolution is “strongly clung to” because it’s one of the most strongly supported theories in the history of science, as you’d know if you actually bothered to study it—supported by evidence.
So many atheists take this issue more seriously than many believers (including you, apparently) because ignorant asswipes (like yourself) continue to indoctrinate their children and write their bronze age myths into legislation.
You’re a poster child for how religious indoctrination rots the brain and why this is worth talking about.
Insane asylums are full of people who speak to imaginary friends every day and are convinced they exist. This is not an argument for the existence of god, it’s a reason to seek mental help.
Again with the argumentum ad populum. You’re more concerned about fitting in than you are about the truth. Remember that for most of humanity’s history, nearly everyone thought the world was flat and the sun went around it. The fact that a lot of people, especially people who on the whole don’t understand much about the matter at hand, believe something doesn’t make it true or even necessarily particularly likely.
If you want more significant numbers, consider that nearly all scientists (that is to say, the most intelligent people in society, and the ones who understand how the universe works more than anyone else, and whose insights are actually reproducible rather than being matters of “faith”) are non-religious, and religiosity and education are negatively correlated.
That is more significant than the fact that many people call themselves religious.
keith said,
December 20th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
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Cairnarvon said,
December 20th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
Dipshit. Misrepresenting science because it’s too difficult for you? Very clever.
And the bible “offends me” because it’s profoundly hateful and one of the strongest obstructions to civilisation in the West today (as you so neatly demonstrate). This is, however, completely irrelevant to the matter at hand, which is the existence or non-existence of God. You seem to have issues with logical fallacies.
There’s something particularly cute about someone who can’t spell or figure out capitalisation saying someone else’s comments come across as uneducated.
Unlike you, I know what the fuck I’m talking about when it comes to biology, physics, and religion. Lurk the fuck moar, and go be fucktarded somewhere else.